tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post6024635797016460119..comments2023-06-15T09:41:19.355-05:00Comments on NT/History Blog: A Chronological Reconstruction: 1 Tim 2, Ephesus and JuniaBill Heromanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05283809456471966882noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-66083452431188919232009-12-18T11:11:24.776-06:002009-12-18T11:11:24.776-06:00Bill
"Who's qualified to be an "eld...Bill<br /><br />"Who's qualified to be an "elder"? <br />By Paul's standards, probably none of us."<br /><br />Yes, Paul does make it tough.<br /><br />Do you know anyone who really cares <br />about the qualifications? <br /><br />Never met an elder <br />who could fulfill the first qualification.<br /><br />Bishops “must be” blameless...<br /><br />It's fun to watch all the different gyrations and<br />excuses “elders” and “leaders?” come up with <br />trying to explain away blameless.<br /><br />Blameless... How important is this word?<br /><br />Paul was probably just joking around anyway.<br /><br />Junia - who is telling the truth? Much debate.<br />Man or women. Apostle or just known by apostles.<br /><br />Here’s a few who disagree about Junia.<br /><br />Revised Standard Version<br /><br />Romans 16:7 Greet Andronicus and Junias, <br />my kinsmen and fellow prisoners:<br />They are “men” of note among the apostles, <br />and they were in Christ before me.<br /><br />Phillips Modern Translation<br /><br />Romans 16:7 A warm greeting too, <br />for Andronicus and Junias <br />my fellow-countrymen and fellow-prisoners; <br />they are outstanding “men” among the messengers...<br /><br />The Amplified Bible<br /><br />Romans 16:7 Remember me to Andronicus and Junias, my tribal kinsmen and once my fellow prisoners. They are “men” held in high esteem among the apostles...<br /><br />The New Testament: Edgar J. Goodspeed<br /><br />Romans 16:7 ...They are noted “men” ...A. Amos Lovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13380832298820984354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-9007214344032031932009-12-17T16:20:23.740-06:002009-12-17T16:20:23.740-06:00I am really struggling through this stuff bro. I w...I am really struggling through this stuff bro. I want to be faithful and I want to see people grow.Lionel Woodshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043784392293311580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-81455910650557664112009-12-17T16:04:16.458-06:002009-12-17T16:04:16.458-06:00Because your brain's like a spider monkey on c...Because your brain's like a spider monkey on crack! In a good way, of course. :-)Bill Heromanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05283809456471966882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-46473157969876552452009-12-17T16:00:59.389-06:002009-12-17T16:00:59.389-06:00Why Tireless?Why Tireless?Lionel Woodshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043784392293311580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-90102812511146923822009-12-17T15:35:46.812-06:002009-12-17T15:35:46.812-06:00Four quick points, in no particular order:
1. Yo...Four quick points, in no particular order:<br /><br />1. You are tireless.<br /><br />2. I'm not a joiner.<br /><br />3. "Doctrinal statement"???<br /><br />4. I've hung out with worse.Bill Heromanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05283809456471966882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-22457583206089710692009-12-17T15:21:47.938-06:002009-12-17T15:21:47.938-06:00Heretic!!!!!!!
Nah, just joking. Can you help me ...Heretic!!!!!!!<br /><br />Nah, just joking. Can you help me understand your statement more? Let me ask another question which is more of a personal one. Would you join a church plant that had in its doctrinal statement a position that prevented women participating in oversight/teaching? And why?Lionel Woodshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043784392293311580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-7468140646785312442009-12-17T15:11:06.464-06:002009-12-17T15:11:06.464-06:00Ahem. I do not know for what this "allows&qu...Ahem. I do not know for what this "allows". ;-)<br /><br />Yes, Junia was a woman. She seems to have been an exception among the apostles, like Deborah among Israel's Judges. However, I would not assume that modern ratios of male/female church planters should mirror ancient ones. I'd take the same attitude as Paul: if she can do it, great!<br /><br />On elders, I'd guess Paul intended all Ephesian elders to be male; "husband of one wife", you know. However, once again, I wouldn't necessarily make that a standard for today.<br /><br />Who's qualified to be an "elder"? By Paul's standards, probably none of us.<br /><br />So, should women be "elders"? I'm not even sure men should be "elders". But if men can be, women can be. Probably.<br /><br />In my Ideal Church, in my dreams, I'd certainly hope the community would grow to acknowledge caring oversight among brothers and sisters in the church. Ideally, I'd say we need both male and female shepherds.Bill Heromanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05283809456471966882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-88327250644545068182009-12-17T15:01:30.004-06:002009-12-17T15:01:30.004-06:00Okay, I got you. Are you convinced that Junias was...Okay, I got you. Are you convinced that Junias was an apostle and female? Does that allow for women elders if so? In other word can a woman be an apostle but be disqualfied from being an elder because she is female. Apostle seems to be a supernatural gift while elder is something we recognize but also could be supernartual also (Acts 20). Thanks.Lionel Woodshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043784392293311580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-75038442828426991462009-12-17T14:57:15.319-06:002009-12-17T14:57:15.319-06:00Hey, Lionel. First of all, I'm not saying &qu...Hey, Lionel. First of all, I'm not saying "was". I'm saying "might have been". Now to answer your question: no, not quite.<br /><br />I'm suggesting Paul's opponents might have insinuated that Paul's support of Junia as an apostle could lead to her taking on a male disciple.<br /><br />If so, then Paul's statement could be a direct refutation of their insinuation.Bill Heromanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05283809456471966882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-20589206672778884912009-12-17T14:20:01.135-06:002009-12-17T14:20:01.135-06:00Elaborate for me Bill. Are you saying the statemen...Elaborate for me Bill. Are you saying the statement Paul was making was actually the words of his opponents?Lionel Woodshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043784392293311580noreply@blogger.com