tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post7594531712395901056..comments2023-06-15T09:41:19.355-05:00Comments on NT/History Blog: Blessed are the Pitiful?Bill Heromanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05283809456471966882noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-32520280580389211352009-09-23T00:59:52.340-05:002009-09-23T00:59:52.340-05:00No, I see that you're right again, Peter. I s...No, I see that you're right again, Peter. I spun off of your last statement, separated from the one before it. (Didn't look at Exodus.)<br /><br />Imagination absolutely should not fly alone. Oops. ;-)Bill Heromanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05283809456471966882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-67370239500462446982009-09-22T16:57:11.415-05:002009-09-22T16:57:11.415-05:00Now I didn't mean to suggest that God was &quo...Now I didn't mean to suggest that God was "pitiful" in that sense! That is clearly not what Exodus 34:6 means in the Hebrew, and almost certainly not in the LXX Greek either. The Hebrew <i>hannun</i> (a word only used as an attribute of God) means what English versions translate it as, "gracious" or "compassionate", cf Exodus 22:27.<br /><br />Yes, navigating Perseus can be a nightmare. And it is so slow! But the new version looks better than the old one when it works.Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-15573395376742668012009-09-22T16:08:39.299-05:002009-09-22T16:08:39.299-05:00I've never been able to navigate Perseus very ...I've never been able to navigate Perseus very well. I'll have to give it another go. Thanks again, Peter.<br /><br />I'm not sure how to put this, about God being pitiful, but he's been jilted, rejected, despised, ignored, insulted, defied... and it may very well be that these aspects of his are offered in scripture partly to encourage our greater compassion for Him.<br /><br />Does God 'need' our compassion? I don't know, but I suppose he's been willing to start there. :-)Bill Heromanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05283809456471966882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-69433617321417299472009-09-22T14:11:34.137-05:002009-09-22T14:11:34.137-05:00Well, Bill, there is Perseus which more or less of...Well, Bill, there is <a href="http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/" rel="nofollow">Perseus</a> which more or less offers an online concordance to the large number of classical Greek (and other) works in its database. Just do a search in Greek of the Greek and Roman materials for all forms of "e)leh/mwn" (there is a key "How to enter text in Greek"), wait for quite a long time, and you will probably get the same 10 results I found, from Aristophanes, Aristotle, Demosthenes, Homer, Isocrates, Josephus, Lysias and Epictetus, as well as the NT. There is also a link to the LSJ entry.<br /><br />They seem to have missed the LXX reference quoted by LSJ, Exodus 34:6, which is significant because this describes an important attribute of God. If Jesus was "pitiful, merciful" he was reflecting the character of his Father.Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-77385400256524881872009-09-22T13:43:01.779-05:002009-09-22T13:43:01.779-05:00Ah. Thanks, Peter.
This is why I want Steve Jobs...Ah. Thanks, Peter.<br /><br />This is why I want Steve Jobs to make a digital greek concordance for, say, the entire Loeb Classical Library. Or is there some such program online I don't know about?Bill Heromanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05283809456471966882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-1680605333735358782009-09-22T13:06:50.966-05:002009-09-22T13:06:50.966-05:00What I meant about the double meaning is that it i...What I meant about the double meaning is that it is the point of the beatitude: happy are those who are pitiful = full of pity because they are also pitiful = recipients of pity.Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-8661277676774601832009-09-22T12:56:08.425-05:002009-09-22T12:56:08.425-05:00Well, Oxford's a great place but I guess the L...Well, Oxford's a great place but I guess the L&S is an awful big book. The comma (not semicolon) doesn't necessarily make them perfect synonmys, but that's an excellent point. And thanks very much, as always.<br /><br />More importantly, Peter, if you don't feel the double meaning is justified in the lexicon, how is it justified in the verse? If you say spiritual intuition, I won't necessarily balk. Just asking. ;-)<br /><br />I remain mostly curious, by the way. I'd meant to put a question mark on the post title originally. I'll go back and do that now.Bill Heromanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05283809456471966882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-89008490441245891392009-09-22T12:28:12.339-05:002009-09-22T12:28:12.339-05:00I'm afraid I don't share your confidence t...I'm afraid I don't share your confidence that this gloss has been updated or reconsidered since the original edition of L&S. So I strongly suspect that Alice's father and his colleague intended "pitiful" in the now obsolete sense of "full of pity". Indeed I can confirm that the definition "pitiful, merciful" is in my 1871 abridged edition of L&S. The comma (rather than a semicolon) implies that these are two descriptions of one sense of the word, rather than separate senses.<br /><br />Yes, the double meaning is in the Beatitude, but in the whole thing: those who SHOW pity also RECEIVE pity.<br /><br />The definition in Louw and Nida's more recent dictionary of NT Greek is simply "pertaining to showing mercy - ‘merciful.’"Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-70005097384278666722009-09-20T15:51:30.067-05:002009-09-20T15:51:30.067-05:00baby boy. Samuel. He's about 6 wks. Our daugh...baby boy. Samuel. He's about 6 wks. Our daughter is 2 1/2 now.Brianhttp://sunestauromai.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-58724038845370740812009-09-20T15:10:09.745-05:002009-09-20T15:10:09.745-05:00Blessed are the pitiful, for they will be shown me...<b>Blessed are the pitiful, for they will be shown mercy.</b><br /><br />Howabout that?<br /><br />Congratulations on the baby girl. :-)Bill Heromanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05283809456471966882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12543231.post-59996358405244273582009-09-19T18:43:25.100-05:002009-09-19T18:43:25.100-05:00"but I think we can agree the sense of "..."but I think we can agree the sense of "pitiful" as "merciful" has pretty much faded away." <br /><br />this was my thought too so that is why I was curious about your use of pity/pitiful - my understanding of the term has more negative connotations - sometimes we all agree someone is pitiful but that doesn't mean we always have pity or mercy on them. But perhaps that is the challenge? Are we to show mercy on the pitiful anyway?<br /><br />ps, we named out daughter "Mercy."Brianhttp://sunestauromai.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com